Ted Ginn's Contract

[GARDENHEAD]

Ted Ginn is slated to be a Dolphin through 2012. Here are the details:

7/27/2007: Signed a five-year, $19.6 million contract. The deal includes $14 million guaranteed. 2009: $677,917, 2010: $1,035,833, 2011: $1,393,750, 2012: $1,801,667 (Voidable Year), 2013: Free Agent

I assume the voidable year means Ted has the ability to void the contract.

Link: http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NfL&id=4168

Any salary cap geniuses out there know what kind of salary cap hit we'd take if we were to cut him. Seems like he's hurting us more than he helps us. I'm not advocating him getting cut. Rather, I think the debate is valid and I'd like more information.

[Skeet84]

No way he should be cut. He is a valuable asset to the team.

[Zach13]

No way he should be cut. He is a valuable asset to the team.

Which team?

[anlgp]

not a cap expert, but i believe we'd have to give him what we haven't in guaranteed money.

[Stitches]

Ted is underperforming without a doubt, but all the WRs (aside from Hartline) are. We need upgrades across the board in that corp. Get a solid #1 prospect (Hartline can work #2, or if Turner comes around), get an explosive slot WR, and keep Ginn for returns and the #4/5 spot if you must. Cutting him solves nothing IMO.

[azfinfanmang]

Ted is underperforming without a doubt, but all the WRs (aside from Hartline) are. We need upgrades across the board in that corp. Get a solid #1 prospect (Hartline can work #2, or if Turner comes around), get an explosive slot WR, and keep Ginn for returns and the #4/5 spot if you must. Cutting him solves nothing IMO.

He isn't worth a dam as a returner either.
He can't block, he can't tackle, he can't catch.


He has become a liability (.)

Time to sever the tie and try something different

[Stitches]

He isn't worth a dam as a returner either.
He can't block, he can't tackle, he can't catch.


He has become a liability (.)

Time to sever the tie and try something different

He actually did pretty good on returns yesterday.

And he did make a tackle, forcing a fumble yesterday (though it wasn't overturned).

He can't block well, not that he can't block.

He isn't catching well, but he can catch (hence 2 for 16 yards).

Whether he is a liability is debatable. He is not the answer at #1 for sure, I wouldn't say that.

I have no problem trying something different, not sure how much more we can do this year though.

[Jeffrey]

Rip up the contract. It's over.

[azfinfanmang]

What exactly is good on returns?
He basically had 4 for 100 yards.
Is that good by standards? I say stick Sheets in there, at least he won't look to run out of bounds.
He can't block to save his life.
By tackling, I am of course suggesting special teams. In that scenario, he doesn't stand a chance.
He simply drops more than he catches.

I know we probably can't do anything about it at this point, but after yesterday, do you think Henne is going to want to go to him when the game is on the line?
I don't think Ginn wants Henne to go to him when the game is on the line.

[Stitches]

What exactly is good on returns?
He basically had 4 for 100 yards.
Is that good by standards? I say stick Sheets in there, at least he won't look to run out of bounds.
He can't block to save his life.
By tackling, I am of course suggesting special teams. In that scenario, he doesn't stand a chance.
He simply drops more than he catches.

I know we probably can't do anything about it at this point, but after yesterday, do you think Henne is going to want to go to him when the game is on the line?
I don't think Ginn wants Henne to go to him when the game is on the line.

Good is 25 yards a return. That average would put him at 15th in the NFL (he's 19th right now, his average in the NO game would be good enough for 12th though), and was considerably better than what we have had back there.

I am pretty confident that if he ran to the middle like so many want to see apparently, that he wouldn't have even averaged 25 yards. They were directional kicking for a reason.

[GridIronKing34]

Cutting him would be flat out dumb. He's not a liability to this team. He'll be here this year and next year, I have little doubt about that.

[GARDENHEAD]

There are many threads debating whether or not Ginn is a liability and should be cut. This is not that thread.

The purpose of this thread is to understand the salary cap ramifications of cutting Ginn. Let's keep it to that, please.

[azfinfanmang]

Good is 25 yards a return. That average would put him at 15th in the NFL (he's 19th right now), and was considerably better than what we have had back there.

I am pretty confident that if he ran to the middle like so many want to see apparently, that he wouldn't have even averaged 25 yards. They were directional kicking for a reason.

Outstanding.
He is somewhere between 19th and 15th?
That almost has him in the better 1/2 in the league. :pity:

I feel MUCH better now :up:

[Jeffrey]

I wasn't saying that we should flat out cut him. That's obviously not going to happen. Let's see if he can make some plays down the stretch and hopefully we might be able to make a trade or get some type of value for him. I wanted him to remain a Dolphin before but now I'm starting to change my mind.

[gunn34]

What exactly is good on returns?
He basically had 4 for 100 yards.
Is that good by standards? I say stick Sheets in there, at least he won't look to run out of bounds.
He can't block to save his life.
By tackling, I am of course suggesting special teams. In that scenario, he doesn't stand a chance.
He simply drops more than he catches.

I know we probably can't do anything about it at this point, but after yesterday, do you think Henne is going to want to go to him when the game is on the line?
I don't think Ginn wants Henne to go to him when the game is on the line.

I agree! He's scared.

I wasn't saying that we should flat out cut him. That's obviously not going to happen. Let's see if he can make some plays down the stretch and hopefully we might be able to make a trade or get some type of value for him. I wanted him to remain a Dolphin before but now I'm starting to change my mind.

Other teams know what we know. He plays scared. Why would they waste a draft pick on him. Cam isn't a GM.

[gunn34]

I think a voidable year is voidable by either side.

[GridIronKing34]

Outstanding.
He is somewhere between 19th and 15th?
That almost has him in the better 1/2 in the league. :pity:

I feel MUCH better now :up:

Keep in mind that his average is slowed down by the pitiful blocking in the first week. Even Cobbs was getting taken down before the 20.

I think it says a lot about Ginn when the Saints were directionally kicking and even booting it deep in the endzone.

[GridIronKing34]

Other teams know what we know. He plays scared. Why would they waste a draft pick on him. Cam isn't a GM.

I think there were some teams who called and asked about Ginn before the trade deadline. So I doubt "no one would waste a draft pick" on Ted Ginn Jr.

[SICK]

Outstanding.
He is somewhere between 19th and 15th?
That almost has him in the better 1/2 in the league. :pity:

I feel MUCH better now :up:

considering he was drafted 3 yrs ago 9th overall to ALSO be a return specialist......it hurts even more.

[GridIronKing34]

considering he was drafted 3 yrs ago 9th overall to ALSO be a return specialist......it hurts even more.

By a different regime.

Get over the draft position argument. I am pretty sure Sparano doesn't have a "X round, X overall pick" sticker on each players helmet.

[Bpk]

I guess no one knows the cap hit, huh?

[SICK]

By a different regime.

Get over the draft position argument. I am pretty sure Sparano doesn't have a "X round, X overall pick" sticker on each players helmet.

why would i get over it? i was a fan of the dolphins then. and now. i dont care about regime. iam not sparano. iam a fan....i can hate on a player all i want. dont tell me to "get over it" cause ginns your boy.

[jetssuck]

I think there were some teams who called and asked about Ginn before the trade deadline. So I doubt "no one would waste a draft pick" on Ted Ginn Jr.

Curious to know what you think he's worth, what you think we could legitimately ask for?

[Stitches]

Curious to know what you think he's worth, what you think we could legitimately ask for?

At this point, conditional 5th is probably the best we could ask for.

I think he could be worth more by years end, and was worth more in the offseason.

He's always been worth more to this team than he would be to other teams, just because of the cast of other WRs that we have.

[jetssuck]

At this point, conditional 5th is probably the best we could ask for.

I think he could be worth more by years end, and was worth more in the offseason.

He's always been worth more to this team than he would be to other teams, just because of the cast of other WRs that we have.

I was gonna say a 5th myself

Hard to believe there are still people that don't think we need an upgrade at WR....our number one might be worth a 5th rounder.

[Ozzy]

By a different regime.

Get over the draft position argument. I am pretty sure Sparano doesn't have a "X round, X overall pick" sticker on each players helmet.


Yeah the X is targeted on his (_)_) at this point.


I don't think it's smart to just cut him salary wise but he's not getting better and quite frankly I'm tired of Tedd Ginn the Wr. Use him almost solely as a return man, and put him in the game now and then and give him a go route.

[GridIronKing34]

why would i get over it? i was a fan of the dolphins then. and now. i dont care about regime. iam not sparano. iam a fan....i can hate on a player all i want. dont tell me to "get over it" cause ginns your boy.

I would tell you the same about Jason Allen or any other player as well. It's not because "Ginn's my boy"...

I think that it would be tough to garner a 4th round pick for him though. I don't think it's wise to let him go until his voidable year (year 5) because as someone said... he's worth more to us than someone else at this point.

[BuckeyeKing]

:lol: another Ginn bashing thread?

[Jeffrey]

Anyone want to buy some low #'d, autographed Ted Ginn cards?

[Stitches]

Anyone want to buy some low #'d, autographed Ted Ginn cards?

Depends what they look like. :yes:

[azfinfanmang]

Depends what they look like. :yes:

AND, how many times they've been dropped...:escape2:

[Vengeful Odin]

If we were to cut Ginn right now we would have his salary number hit our cap next year. So we're talking about $1,035,833.

You guys are all forgetting a key point. Even Roger Goodell thinks it's likely (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8125af10&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true) that we will have an uncapped year in 2010, which means he wouldn't impact us at all.

[gafinfan]

Sorry VO to disagree but .............

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playerdetail.aspx?lname=ginn&player=4457

Ted Ginn's Cap for 2010 is 3*1,970,000.00 = 5,910,000.00. This is the prorated bonus money plus anything in the contract that maybe a back end bonus not paid at his signing. The salery would be added if he were cut after the start of the season. Not sure what date that is. BTW if traded we are still responsible for his guaranteed money.

BTW a voidable year is only for the players use not the teams and has nothing to do with his money. He's already been paid but it has to be shown on the books this way as you well know.

2010 being an uncapped year means that a team can spend any amount of money they want to but I don't think you'll see the owners go crazy. Ok maybe Snider or Davis but ....... surely not Tuna, its not his style.

[GridIronKing34]

Sorry VO to disagree but .............

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playerdetail.aspx?lname=ginn&player=4457

Ted Ginn's Cap for 2010 is 3*1,970,000.00 = 5,910,000.00. This is the prorated bonus money plus anything in the contract that maybe a back end bonus not paid at his signing. The salery would be added if he were cut after the start of the season. Not sure what date that is. BTW if traded we are still responsible for his guaranteed money.

BTW a voidable year is only for the players use not the teams and has nothing to do with his money. He's already been paid but it has to be shown on the books this way as you well know.

2010 being an uncapped year means that a team can spend any amount of money they want to but I don't think you'll see the owners go crazy. Ok maybe Snider or Davis but ....... surely not Tuna, its not his style.

It's not coming out of Parcell's pocket, why the hell does he care?

[Vengeful Odin]

Ga, you're right. I forgot about the guaranteed money that's likely part of his signing bonus. I was just looking at his base salary.

His base salaries (from NFLPA) are as follows:

2007: $285,000
2008: $370,000
2009: $677,917
2010: $1,035,833
2011: $1,393,750

In addition, based on your USA today link I think we can safely assume his signing bonus was $9,850,000. That would be prorated out over the life of the contract at a yearly rate of $1,970,000. That leaves $5,987,500 that Ted would make in either roster bonuses or other incentives.

We know (again from the link) that $3,461,347 of that has already been given out in other bonuses, leaving $2,526,153 yet unpaid.

So, if we cut Ginn today, we would be on the hook for:

$677,917 base salary
$5,910,000 signing bonuses
$2,526,153 other bonuses (may have already been paid in March as a roster bonus or something similar).

So at a minimum, the cap hit is $6,587,917 and at a maximum you're looking at $9,114,070 if we were to cut him today.

Even if we were to wait until the off season and cut him we're likely looking at a cap hit of at least $3,940,000, which would be the remainder of his guaranteed money, providing we've paid out the other bonuses already.

[azfinfanmang]

Ga, you're right. I forgot about the guaranteed money that's likely part of his signing bonus. I was just looking at his base salary.

His base salaries (from NFLPA) are as follows:

2007: $285,000
2008: $370,000
2009: $677,917
2010: $1,035,833
2011: $1,393,750

In addition, based on your USA today link I think we can safely assume his signing bonus was $9,850,000. That would be prorated out over the life of the contract at a yearly rate of $1,970,000. That leaves $5,987,500 that Ted would make in either roster bonuses or other incentives.

We know (again from the link) that $3,461,347 of that has already been given out in other bonuses, leaving $2,526,153 yet unpaid.

So, if we cut Ginn today, we would be on the hook for:

$677,917 base salary
$5,910,000 signing bonuses
$2,526,153 other bonuses (may have already been paid in March as a roster bonus or something similar).

So at a minimum, the cap hit is $6,587,917 and at a maximum you're looking at $9,114,070 if we were to cut him today.

Even if we were to wait until the off season and cut him we're likely looking at a cap hit of at least $3,940,000, which would be the remainder of his guaranteed money, providing we've paid out the other bonuses already.



Holy CRAP!!!

This kid better start making a HUGE impact in the return game is all I have to say..........

[gafinfan]

It's not coming out of Parcell's pocket, why the hell does he care?

Do you want to overpay for your next house or car even if its your parents money. Come on, of course he cares, all you have to do is look at the way he operates and he is still responsible for what he spends. :no::wink2:

[phineas64]

Holy CRAP!!!

This kid better start making a HUGE impact in the return game is all I have to say..........

You speak, and TG listens! Maybe this week you should tell him to catch the ball too. :lol:

[Gitrdone]

Reading the posts in this thread make me laugh, take about Knee jerk reactions.

[K-Train]

Put him at Corner.

[miamiron]

Put him at Corner.

no...PUT HIM IN A CORNER:shifty:

[azfinfanmang]

At this point, conditional 5th is probably the best we could ask for.

I think he could be worth more by years end, and was worth more in the offseason.
He's always been worth more to this team than he would be to other teams, just because of the cast of other WRs that we have.

You want to re-think that thought right in the middle Pete? :lol:

[Stitches]

You want to re-think that thought right in the middle Pete? :lol:

Why would I?

He was definitely worth more this past offseason than he is now, and he could be worth more than a 5th (which is the most he could possibly be worth right now) by the end of the year.

I don't see how anything has changed to alter what I said.

[adamprez2003]

I would be far more concerned with the money we are paying our offensive line. We are getting average production for elite pay. if there is a salry black hole that's where it is. Other than Jake Grove, I'm not sure any lineman is playing up to his contract hit

[ToddsPhins]

He isn't worth a dam as a returner either.
He can't block, he can't tackle, he can't catch.


He has become a liability (.)

Time to sever the tie and try something different

can we just play with 10 men on the field and save ourselves the future mistakes? Sometimes less is more, no? :dunno:

[Stitches]

can we just play with 10 men on the field and save ourselves the future mistakes? Sometimes less is more, no? :dunno:

Right because he totally proved last game that he shouldn't be out there. All those mistakes he made like 3rd down conversions and good field position on KRs definitely weren't useful.

[King Felix]

he sure isnt worth a damn at returning, thats for sure.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....

[ToddsPhins]

Right because he totally proved last game that he shouldn't be out there. All those mistakes he made like 3rd down conversions and good field position on KRs definitely weren't useful.

7 catches for 54 yards with 0 TDs in the past 5 games doesn't really spark a fire and scream reliability either. Just sayin. :tongue2:

[Crappy Tipper]

I wish they could fine him 100K every time he runs out of bounds and gives up on a return when a cut inside or hell just falling forward could get a few more yards.

[byroan]

Ted Ginn is the new Ronnie Brown. No matter what he does, there will always be people hating on him.

[PhiNomina]

I wish they could fine him 100K every time he runs out of bounds and gives up on a return when a cut inside or hell just falling forward could get a few more yards.

I'd like to see a stat of our average starting field position before he was put on kickoffs and after. I seem to remember a lot of drives that used to start at the 20 now start at the 40.

If that means he ducks out of bounds sometimes I'll take it. I'd rather win games than prove a point.

[Crappy Tipper]

I'd like to see a stat of our average starting field position before he was put on kickoffs and after. I seem to remember a lot of drives that used to start at the 20 now start at the 40.

If that means he ducks out of bounds sometimes I'll take it. I'd rather win games than prove a point.

His average return is 30.4 yards, if you take away the two home runs it's about 24 yards.

My entire point is that by shorting a return for fear of contact he's not giving the offense the full benefit and that will cost us games if anything driving a longer field.

[PhiNomina]

His average return is 30.4 yards, if you take away the two home runs it's about 24 yards.

My entire point is that by shorting a return for fear of contact he's not giving the offense the full benefit and that will cost us games if anything driving a longer field.

I understand he isn't perfect - but looking at a hypothetical situation in which we lose a game because he didn't take a hit and get an extra 2 yards - vs the Jets game that he actually won us with his return abilities seems to be nitpicking.

And returning isn't like a running back - the big returns are why you put guys back there, you can't take those out of the equation. Would you rather we have someone like Bess who is no threat in the return game? Not only are his returns good - but teams kicking away from him has already given us better field position numerous times. I don't see teams saying, "Well, he is afraid to take a hit so we'll just kick it to him."

He is 4th in the league in returns of 40+ yards, with less returns than anyone ahead of him.

[Crappy Tipper]

I understand he isn't perfect - but looking at a hypothetical situation in which we lose a game because he didn't take a hit and get an extra 2 yards - vs the Jets game that he actually won us with his return abilities seems to be nitpicking.

And returning isn't like a running back - the big returns are why you put guys back there, you can't take those out of the equation. Would you rather we have someone like Bess who is no threat in the return game? Not only are his returns good - but teams kicking away from him has already given us better field position numerous times. I don't see teams saying, "Well, he is afraid to take a hit so we'll just kick it to him."

He is 4th in the league in returns of 40+ yards, with less returns than anyone ahead of him.

I just think the guy could be doing so much more if he would fight it out once in a while, take the hard cut inside. I've had the pleasure of seeing every kick off return of his this season and I can't count the number of times that I've been screaming because he ducks out of bounds when a there was one person being blocked directly in his path instead of running to the middle of the field and potentially a bigger return for better field position of a TD.

[PhiNomina]

I just think the guy could be doing so much more if he would fight it out once in a while, take the hard cut inside. I've had the pleasure of seeing every kick off return of his this season and I can't count the number of times that I've been screaming because he ducks out of bounds when a there was one person being blocked directly in his path instead of running to the middle of the field and potentially a bigger return for better field position of a TD.

I'm not familiar enough with his college career - is this something he has always done or new in his time in Miami?

Same with going down after catching the ball.

[adamprez2003]

I just think the guy could be doing so much more if he would fight it out once in a while, take the hard cut inside. I've had the pleasure of seeing every kick off return of his this season and I can't count the number of times that I've been screaming because he ducks out of bounds when a there was one person being blocked directly in his path instead of running to the middle of the field and potentially a bigger return for better field position of a TD. maybe but unlike joshua cribbs who people wanted here he's played every game. the macho stuff makes no sense when you're only talking about five yards. granted there have been a handful of times when i thought he couldve gotten more but when you're programmed to live to fight another day i dont have a problem with the elite speed guys running out of bounds. someone who runs a 4.6 better cut it inside, someone who runs a sub 4.4 can run out of bounds. dont want to lose him. st louis rams receivers under mike martz did it all the time. noone complained

[Crappy Tipper]

maybe but unlike joshua cribbs who people wanted here he's played every game. the macho stuff makes no sense when you're only talking about five yards. granted there have been a handful of times when i thought he couldve gotten more but when you're programmed to live to fight another day i dont have a problem with the elite speed guys running out of bounds. someone who runs a 4.6 better cut it inside, someone who runs a sub 4.4 can run out of bounds. dont want to lose him. st louis rams receivers under mike martz did it all the time. noone complained

How do you know it would have just been five yards? That deep into the return one good cut can set up 10-20-50 more yards on a return.

Someone would have if I had been a Rams fan :lol:

[adamprez2003]

How do you know it would have just been five yards? That deep into the return one good cut can set up 10-20-50 more yards on a return.

Someone would have if I had been a Rams fan :lol: :lol::up: true you never know. but the sprinters cant be asked to be football players. next thing you know cornerbacks like deion sanders will be asked to tackle :lol: what kind of sick game are you advocating. the way i look at it is football players in the middle of the field and trasck and field guys outside lol

[jetssuck]

Ted Ginn is the new Ronnie Brown. No matter what he does, there will always be people hating on him.

Ted Ginn and Ronnie Brown have one thing in common, the team they play on.

[NickyNapoleon]

I guess no one knows the cap hit, huh?

As for Ginn, he signed a 5 year 19.6 million contract with 14 million guaranteed. His base salaries are 2007: .285, 2008: .370, 2009:677,917, 2010: 1,035,833, 2011: 1,393,750 and 2012: 1,801,667. Add up the base salaries and you get 5,564,167. His signing bonus was 9.85 mil. He also has another 4.15 mil in bonuses scattered through his contract which I believe have been paid out.

If we release/trade him, you are looking at the remaining protated bonuses and then the remaining bonuses which havent been paid out. I believe that so far 1.2 mil of the 4.15 have been paid outand he has 3 mil in incentives payable this year.

So you have 3 x 1.970 in signing bonus proration which is 5.91 million left.


Got this from Philter he runs our salary cap

[byroan]

Ted Ginn and Ronnie Brown have one thing in common, the team they play on.

They also have the same type of fanbase. There are still people on this website who think Ronnie Brown was not worth the #2 pick, not a good RB, someone who should be traded, etc. They are never going to change their mind.

The same thing is happening with Ted Ginn.

[Crappy Tipper]

They also have the same type of fanbase. There are still people on this website who think Ronnie Brown was not worth the #2 pick, not a good RB, someone who should be traded, etc. They are never going to change their mind.

The same thing is happening with Ted Ginn.

The difference is that Ronnie has done something consistently over his career to disprove the naysayers.

Ginn has not.

[PhiNomina]

The difference is that Ronnie has done something consistently over his career to disprove the naysayers.

Ginn has not.

Get hurt?

Kidding. I love Ronnie but just showing that there are two sides to every argument. People who knock Ronnie can easily point out he's never played 16 games. People who support Ginn can easily point out he has won us 1-2 this year.

I think the point of the thread was to figure out the impact of cutting Ginn - it is huge. His value as a kick returner and project WR that may or may not pan out is worth more than the $5 cap hit.

[Al13]

His average return is 30.4 yards, if you take away the two home runs it's about 24 yards.

My entire point is that by shorting a return for fear of contact he's not giving the offense the full benefit and that will cost us games if anything driving a longer field.

why would you take away the 2 runs ? they happened, it really is funny how people take away big plays from a player to make him look more average

[Crappy Tipper]

why would you take away the 2 runs ? they happened, it really is funny how people take away big plays from a player to make him look more average

It has nothing to do with making him look average, it has everything to do with what we should expect in returns on kicks where he does not break it all the way.

Because in reality he typically doesn't get a 30 yard average, he gets closer to 24 because two returns of 100 yards certainly throw the average way the hell off given the relatively small number of returns.

If we base our expectations with two exceptional plays in them he will, as he typically does, fall short of expectation.

[Stitches]

It has nothing to do with making him look average, it has everything to do with what we should expect in returns on kicks where he does not break it all the way.

Because in reality he typically doesn't get a 30 yard average, he gets closer to 24 because two returns of 100 yards certainly throw the average way the hell off given the relatively small number of returns.

If we base our expectations with two exceptional plays in them he will, as he typically does, fall short of expectation.

If you take away his 2 longest, you need to take away his two shortest as well. I would bet if you did the average would be more like 26 ypr, which would still put him in the top 10. Of course the other top returners would look pretty average if you took their longest 2 away as well. Oh wait not average, but it would be closer to what you should expect on each return.

[Phinsfan1970]

I think that Ronnie Brown has proven his worth to the Dolphins more than anyone else this year (or last). Henne has played well, Chad Pennington did okay before being hurt, Fasano and Bess really good...but no one has done what Ronnie has done for the Dolphins.

As for Ginn, honestly I'm simply tired of saying "give him a chance" he had plenty. He's dropped the ball in far too many games, games we could have won like against the Colts and we even had chances against the Saints...but thanks to Ted we have nothing. Not only dropped in games, but dropped potential touchdowns :pity:!! There's no excuse for that. You know why Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Payton Manning are all having great years? Because they ACTUALLY HAVE receivers willing to catch the ball, hang on, and take the hit. Ginn looks afraid of contact.

I saw Shockey take a heck of a massive hit the other night against the PATS, know what? He held it, took the hit, picked up the first and moved onto the next series of plays. Why can't we?? We have to start thinking about getting Pennington and Henne a couple true targets. Then we'll be able to pick up 10+ yrds. per play from the air, become an explosive offense and be dangerous from the ground and air attack. We strike no fear in the hearts of our opponents when we're in a set offensive passing down. We're primarily a running/ smash mouth football team which is cool, but we have to make them respect the passing games as well. We also need to move to better play calling on the offensive side. I watched the calls being made for the Bills game and say no wonder we lost this game. Charlie Weiss? former offensive coordinator for the Jets and PATS?? Definitely one of the Bill Parcell's boys. Don't be surprised when you see him in Davie, Florida and remember where you heard it first...

[elwood100]

ginn is a sissy peter puffer and i luv the phins.

[Fin-Omenal]

ginn is a sissy peter puffer and i luv the phins.

Not a great way to start your Phins.com career.:pity:

[the 23rd]

I think he will be cut or traded, unless he restructures his contract in a more favorable & appropriate manner that would allow the FrontOffice to give him a year four to get off the floor & develop into a football player. :yes:

[Stitches]

I think he will be cut or traded, unless he restructures his contract in a more favorable & appropriate manner that would allow the FrontOffice to give him a year four to get off the floor & develop into a football player. :yes:

So how exactly do you propose he restructure?

[GridIronKing34]

So how exactly do you propose he restructure?

It's laughable about how people want to cut him because of "all this money he makes"... I don't think people know the contract situations very well on certain players.

[Stitches]

It's laughable about how people want to cut him because of "all this money he makes"... I don't think people know the contract situations very well on certain players.

Right. He's probably overpaid, but restructuring his contract isn't in any way beneficial to the team.

[GridIronKing34]

Right. He's probably overpaid, but restructuring his contract isn't in any way beneficial to the team.

For his production, likely. But it's not like he's Joey Porter overpaid... I can understand if you want to cut him for production.. I don't agree with it, but I can understand. I don't understand why you would cut him for contract reasons though.

[Fin-Omenal]

Keep Ginn bandwagon...

Im in.